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Conversation with Bill Mahnke regarding mental health, including anxiety, depression and resources for mental illness.


great that you guys are here with us today I'm super excited about this weekend we've been preparing for it for the last couple of months a conversation about mental health issues anxiety depression suicide and the impact that it's having in our country and in our region is severe in my opinion I believe it's impacting us greatly we hear stories of people every every week that are being impacted by depression and anxiety and so forth and so we wanted to start the conversation and rather than just doing it from a biblical perspective which I'll do next weekend I wanted to also bring in a mental health expert actually bill it was first I wanted him to be my therapist and then I realized he's actually a really good friend and and I guess you could have your friend be your therapist but I decided to go with somebody else that works with him at water cup counseling where that bill started bill manky is our guest today and he started water cup counseling many years ago and has been influential in my life I actually met bill funny story is when after my son chase died at about two weeks later bill Shannon a brine Shannon the guy in our church told me hey you should get connected with bill bill lost a child as well and he might have you know he might be able to help you well any of you that have gone through any kind of loss whether it's a loss of a child or just any kind of loss you know sometimes you just don't want to talk about it you know I'm saying you like this leave me alone I was in that mode and so I didn't I didn't actually reach out to bill for several months and I finally finally decided to do it I finally had the courage I think to actually do it and I had my assistant call his office on a Thursday to set up something in a week or two that very next day on Friday I was I went with shepherd's house on a trip to the Snake River that they invited me to be a part of the just this amazing time going down rapids on rafts three days three nights it was this in this incredible trip I show up on Friday morning at Shepherd's house to go on this trip and guess who's coming with us bill manky I couldn't believe it I wrapped it with him the entire time we talked I told him I wasn't gonna use him as a therapist I didn't have that money at the time to pay him for it so he's just a friend and we had such a wonderful time and I knew that he was the right guy to come and have a conversation with us today about these very important issues that our region is facing and you have a bio of Bill on the handout that was given to you you can pull that out I would encourage you to read it so you know that bill actually is has some education under his belt and and also just to know a little bit more about who he is and on the backside are some resources that I'll mention in just a moment but without any further ado would you guys welcome bill manky as he comes to share with us this morning and Evans gonna be our moderator so mediator I said in the last service I thought no bill and I are gonna be just fine Evans gonna be our moderator today take it away all right so we're gonna put the text number up on the screen so get your phones out and we've used this text line before and we love the conversation even the last service we just had a flood of text coming in throughout this discussion with further questions comments from the crowd and so it's super helpful and I know with crowd this size we're not paying it through every single question but the input is greatly appreciated and I'll be kind of introducing some of those comments and questions to the conversation while that text numbers up there Evan I just want to reiterate that bill and I do not want to be just coming up with our own thoughts and questions up here we we really believe we want this to be a conversation with the congregation and so it's a great opportunity for you to text even if you don't have a question maybe you have an agreement or maybe have a thought or a comment or maybe you just want want to put an exclamation point on some point that bill made or that was a question that was raised and that you agree with then use that text number for all of those things and Evan will weed through that all of that and find the questions that he wants to bring to us and what he's going to do is kind of find common themes that are coming out of this time so Evan great great well let's start out guys with this conversation about mental health issues specifically in the church because I know that even even a short back as maybe 10 15 years ago these topics were treated as spiritual issues only so if you were facing depression or many times they weren't talked about at all very taboo but when they were it was seen as just a spiritual problem with just a spiritual answer and I think by virtue of having you even here today we are acknowledging that our view has changed that there's more to it than just the spiritual side there's also other things and so bill can you speak to that what when you're dealing with mental health issues from a Christian perspective how much is spiritual how much is physiological how much is biological how do those kind of come to play in working with with mental health I think for me for me the universe we start from a place of of who made us and therefore it becomes spiritual we have eternally loving all-powerful God who created us intimately and so there is that spiritual but with that creation of creating us intimately there's a there's an understanding that we we we will grieve we will we will need partnership and there is a space for inviting deep deep connection around discovering is this a just a physiological issue is it a something that's going on just lacking the right chemicals and can we surround ourselves and frankly I don't I don't like blame the church for not talking about it because we kind of get nervous we maybe we don't want to embarrass God or something about her grief or we we kind of keep it hidden to ourselves I love it when people decide to to look at those areas and say is there somebody who spent their life studying the physiological response to things and just like slowing that down understanding again how intimately God created us and then and and staring at it from a place not of shame felt like I'll kick you're my kid of course I want you to look at this all that says so clearly yeah and and you say shame in my opinion I I feel like the feedback we've gotten over the years is that that people kind of associate church with shame that when you come into church if you have issues there's automatically going to be kind of a layer of shame that comes with that and so it makes people may be afraid to admit hey I'm going through crisis alright I'm having an issue here because of that shame that maybe has been propagated in churches you agree with that Steve no I think we've done everything just right okay moving on let's go watch the soccer celebration right you don't know what your problem is with the church Evan no yeah I do think there's been obviously Evan you're absolutely right I think there's it's been taboo it's been taboo to be broken publicly to express and then and then when somebody does we're really quick to try to come in and fix it you know we give here you know I memorized this passage of Scripture that that will that come that will help you you know and and I'm not saying scripture doesn't help I I believe that it's one of the it's one of the few books and maybe the only one that actually has things that one one phrase can cut right to our brokenness and and speak to and in such a gentle grace filled way you know but but I think we try to fix things so quickly right away and that that has a tendency to bring shame into the equation when we're so we're so quick to highlight yeah we're all sinners instead of quick to highlight the way that God has created us in His image and and that he has good things for us you know and we're trying to figure that out so yeah I think I think there's a lot for us to learn and I and I love I mean having this conversation because as we've walked through brokenness in our church over the last decade really it's it feels like as my you know the former pastor here Ken Johnson pastor Bo her the things that she went through and Steve her husband you know loss of losing his life to ALS our son all of these things have given permission as we've walked through them for people to be open about their own brokenness not about a loss of a child but all kinds of brokenness that that exists in our in our church family and in our society to be open and say yeah I'm struggling and Pat answers religious cliches are just we're just done with that stuff you know and we want to go deeper both in the word and in the science of how God created us to understand how to walk towards wholeness you're saying it's both right this isn't a pendulum that once we were all just let's pray about it and now we're like forget about prayer it says go see a professional right it's a partnership right bill absolutely and it's it is permission and I wish I paid better a client attention to my Greek classes I need more words other than just like yeah you're allowed to it's like dig in and and this is about you I I like the idea that we get nervous so that we can help but I don't say blessed to be a blessing to my children I want them nourishing and dining and getting real and saying yeah you're you are permitted to think about this part of your life and I'm thinking and I celebrate when you stop and reflect and wonder how you're unique in all of creation I'm regularly invited in my own office where I have my clever title and founder/director law I'm invited to depth by the the courage and the exposure and the vulnerability of people who are saying whatever where they start off with but like I'm not going to continue this this this plastic black and my thing isn't isn't right and it's not just right anymore it's like I'm sick of it it's the fervency and it thrills me I get invited more probably often by them than they do by meat it's real dining we're just tired of croutons whatever when you guys talk about you know losing children many have lost loved ones that so clearly is a point of grief that people look at and say oh that's real right intense crisis what about those things that people face that in light of losing a child they feel like oh my compare big deal I just lost my job and yet I am now depressed I'm not functioning well I need help but it's not as bad as Steve has it so I don't feel like I should should probably bring that out right I we got that a lot when you know people would come up and because of our brokenness they felt permission to tell us their brokenness which I just love I love that that that that we could actually travel together you know through our brokenness and but they would always like compare you know like well I haven't done I haven't experienced this I haven't you know and I always I always felt like I lost this loss I mean we grieve over all kinds of things and and and there's not grades to it there's not levels to it I in my opinion I think I think loss is loss and and we have to acknowledge that in our in our in our souls that because we we like to diminish or minimize our brokenness well it's not worth telling anybody oh it's not really worth you know opening up to I can handle this on my own and so we we have a tendency to keep pressing brokenness down under the surface and never dealing with it until you know you're in your 40s or 50s it seems and then okay now I have to dealing with it my father dies or you know the tragedy something else happens in my life that stirs something else up you know so now I have to unforce too because we've spent a lifetime pressing our brokenness under the surface when my daughter was 14 it seems like yesterday but it was 9 years ago she says she got philosophical and she said daddy sometimes you've got to fire your judges she walked away with her gowns but it sometimes these these these judges that tell us now this is funeral worthy you know I my son passed away and two days ago I was holding a little baby that one of our affiliates just had a baby and saw this hole and had to hand the baby back to Rachel I went back in my office and wept and wept and wept and it's understandable it's 18 years but it's still yesterday and and there's this thing I call it funerals were not allowed to have because we'll compare it with obviously it's not as tough and since it's not as tough it doesn't warrant partnership and grieving I I finally noticed the other day when I was reading the Beatitudes that maybe God headed an order in mind when he talks about broken spirited and morning on the way to health but it's like we just don't do grief well we don't do funerals we we wait a little bit until it gets more urgent and guess what then we pass it down to our children and depression and loneliness and fragile and I must be stupid and God doesn't really love me because look I'm I'm sad because I got a B instead of an a it was never my issue but for some people there was like two semesters to get áfourá but it was like it's like oh man you know but it's like it's not enough but when that day comes when a son dies or and can we stop and can we understand that with with young people one of the there's some of the highest rates of self-harm and and just fallen apart have to do with people who've who've been known as high achievers and great athletes and now they start getting those quote lower grades or whatever else is gone can we grieve together when Steve and I did meet for that first time just on the river I remember by the shoreline I picked up this cool little Florence rock and I kept the rock and I have it on my my dresser next to my bed right now and I literally call it my gravestone what's a go that's fatalistic yes be fatalistic once in a while happens and grief happens and lost and I just I keep it there so that everyday I can stop and give myself permission to say there was a loss there and I mean I don't tell my kids wait till it really builds up and then come and tell me you're sad I mean Abba you then being evil know how to give good gifts how much more does your father in heaven long so I have to have something if you know me very well I'm a tangible person little rock reminds me freedom to grieve more and you give there's an intentionality about that and I'll sit down but I get excited about that love this combination came in as a mentally disabled person thank you for being transparent I struggle with feeling less than due to my disability but I always remember I'm a daughter of the King at 56 I just got a job at Dairy Queen God supports us every day and that cool yeah it's great I mean daughter of the King yeah we can go home now I mean identity identity knowing knowing who you are guess the world is trying to identify us at every turn they're trying to label us even our brokenness they try to label us as this or that and and and and and there's something higher there's something better there's something more that we're labeled as by a loving father yeah a lot of questions coming in several parents an adult child a younger child asking how to get help for people that they love that need help but they're not sure what to do where to go what do you say how can we be better at getting help for people thank you for the most important question and we can we can sit here and and grieve or we can we can bring those up and say look I'm gonna I'm gonna start I'm going to start with my identity am i worth getting help this is okay and I'm on my way to get in an issue answer but kind of putting a the number four over the issue but on the way to get to the to the answer is is this person each one of us here eternally creating the image of God whose cherishes has chosen cherish complete and clean is that person worth health had please yes somebody's a yes but well this wait one of these days and it won't be long now this whole faith of our fathers wasn't always good enough for them or us and now we're stopping and say I'm I'm adamantly worth in fact it's my greatest act of faith to reach out and get help allow others to hold me then we grow as a beloved now from there I'm gonna suggest that we we let the local church know if I was to share with you here's how you could answer so that I might want to do it again does that make sense we're not just gonna say hey we're the church share we've all kind of been invited close to places where thank you thank you I'm thinking of this far aside thing with this dog is coaxing this cat into the dryer so please and you kind of get into this there's vulnerable place we're not going to invite somebody in a vulnerable place unless we can listen to them and say this is how I will care for you if you honor with me by your honesty in your vulnerable however that word is pronounced and and I and I and I'm gonna I'm gonna be stunned by it I I got a couple of master's degree but they just giggle it at me compared to the authenticity of people that walk into the office and say never met you I'm gonna share with you you're about the same age and gender of the last person who beat me up and yeah and here they are and I think from that place of worse then we have a discussion with the church body and or you you called my office or many others and and say hey this is showing up can we wrap ourselves around it together you I think you have some contact information and we got lots of people coming around like searching for more clients we had like 9000 sessions last year's pretty busy and but but it's an honor and so if you're if you're even wondering how do we get we'll help you take that next and maybe experiment in your own home with some of those questions about this is what I would need if I was to be open it's good several questions coming in about what seems like a trend of mental health crisis in our culture this one says you hear people talk about a mental health epidemic do you think there is one or has there always been this many people that have felt this way is it possible that people are more open to talking about it is the events of the world or something else going on it is interesting that it's just been a few decades since as far as young people related this is please it's not just a kid issue and when you grow up you'll be like the rest of us with our lobotomies just like fine and don't know why but but these young people and so in their case there's this wonderful deal they're doing now called school counselors where somebody goes oh you're struggling it used to just be ignored and and I know we were busy with things like depressions in World War Two and threes and ones but this this invitation into that now we actually have a culture that's actually paying attention a little bit so that if I was to have a need we're actually noticing I don't think we've really had a microscope in this area for a long time and are studying it from that place I think I think we need to to continue to assure people that we will follow through I think things are growing obviously you can have 800 Facebook friends and whatever but when we're broken and sad or or even mildly vulnerable psycho you all of a sudden somebody unfriend says it's like what was friend in the first place so I think some of that is is separating us not just Facebook that's the classic example but the busyness and the mandate to kind of this army of one thing again I was talking to dick Tobias and who's a guy in our church who's helped World War two veterans I get back to DC and we were talking about mental health issues among those who have served in our military and how you think about some of the strongest men and women been trained you know to withstand all kinds of things that that are wrestling with mental health issues and I mean I think we could all agree that the worst thing that a soldier who served in Afghanistan could do is to stuff right and I think but I think that's what we've done I think we've promoted it even a little bit and and maybe taking the taking the veil off this caused us to see more than we thought we would see in the broke of brokenness in our in our in our in our soldiers but also in our youth and in ourselves I believe there's almost a terror as we're on this massive path to growth and expansion and etc there's this terror of of stopping to notice like you said it's just like what have they gone through do I understand the veteran the eight-year-old that somebody we kind of have classified already is oh they're fine they're good or they're gonna it's just a high school romance it's like no it's it's the real deal everything we're talking about here and and to simply notice I was reflecting on Christ on his path to the most an event in all of history the personal sacrifice of the Son of God on the cross the just destroying any response from Satan as he raised from the dead and then he keeps stopping and somebody in the crowd touches him and boom carry and somebody else is blinding he keeps stopping this big venture and so I can get my big venture as well as I don't get this grow it cetera and we have our own version of that big thing our calling and I I keep called what about my main calling to stop him and notice individuals and and we slow and reflect and and we take the example of a veteran and then we could you open my eyes to other people around me and here's the tough one and me and as as the church like we want to be agents of health and for those that we love but also I think recognizing hey I I could use I could use some improvement in my own life how do you both get better yourself and also help those around you because we're not waiting until we get perfect right and then I'll so now we can help oh yeah now I love it I like Isaiah 58 6 through 12 I just came to mine I love it it's like you got these people who are going God we fasted he said okay I'm kind of tired of tearing your clothes it's expensive and it's really not the heart issue and there he says is this the fast I have called you to and and then he said no here's the fast and he says when you see the needy and the broke and the destitute the homeless the naked and he says you pour into them the powerful thing because it answers both of them he says then you will then your own darkness will turn to light I sang that song 18 years as a kid but it never quite hit me what that came from a bike from a place of vulnerability and saying I don't I don't have all these answers I don't have them people are so complex I don't care many years I've studied it's like this is community and spirit of if any change really happens and and to to pour in and I like it and it says later and that passes it when you extend your soul another word for intimacy I'm gonna put myself in a place where you can laugh at me you know vulnerability and and will be held together so I see them going together I don't want to if I get ready to help somebody by the time they come in I'm pointless because I've got a flannelgraph all set for you I even mess around with people I say my my intake form is just long enough to know where to mail the body if you die in the office I really want to know all these stuff about you I'd like to understand you as a beloved almighty creation and we can talk about things we've been diagnosed I get that but primarily this true identity when it comes to mental health issues that aren't circumstantial but that are are chemical or are something physiological that's going on that aren't attached to anything that's happening but are very much real and present how much of a response to that is spiritual how much of that response is clinical or medical from the spiritual let's check on things like like like repentance and fellowship in the body and checking things you know things we've been raised with to look at that from the chemical can we please give some credit to people who are just in awe of the Creator even if they haven't met him yet and they've spent their lives studying about how our body works chemically my father was diagnosed with Parkinson's when he was 38 and I grew up hearing people Jeff because he'd get delusional sometimes in Jeff his meds if only your seed of faith was a little bit bigger you'd be fine never heard that said that yes I have no I haven't said that because I was so riled as a seven year old I actually first time I ever wondered if I could take down a deacon it doesn't quite fit in the after church you know narcissism I thought I could do it but it but it was like but to hear that message and can we stop and say look let's get a cabinet member somebody who's like studied this and we find out how much is chemical and waste I mean it's not really a med but mozzarella stick helps me a lot when I get home and that's really under selling things as far as I need protein and I'm saying if I need protein and I I don't have other chemical issues like we've spoken of if protein will do that for me what about folks who who find themselves lacking and something that our our brain our function just has to have I got caught in a landslide a few years ago at the bottom of this pit with ton of dirt on me nobody said well what are these babies you know they like or what did you do to get self into the situation or what have you learned from it or give it to God no they they jumped in and join me and held me and then they started working to unbury me and I don't know that that's why it happened but it kind of reminds me of some of these avalanches that we didn't self-inflict we were that way when my own mom was dying somebody came up to me and said bill Jesus hates cancer yeah me too kind of don't like it either but her idea was if you could just and and I I think we just need to look at it hard instead of going what is going on whether it's cancer or some of the things that contribute to one of my neighbors there their family is wrestling with narcolepsy most of us don't even know what that means is this this assault of this massive need to sleep whatever you're doing and there's they were saying bill we don't really need a counselor we just like to know is anybody out there that we can that also kind of is just recently learning the definition and going hey we're sad we're fragile and we get to come together and and that's what a church gets to do when we give an opportunity to show that it seems like historically we're good at in the church analyzing the whole more than we are getting down in it mm-hmm Steve what does it look like for the church to surround well we've got to think of ourselves holistically we got to think of ourselves a spirit soul mind body you know not just spirit you know and and and realize that everything affects everything so even our spirit though the Spirit of God who lives inside of us can do miraculous things we've seen him heal bodies so he can heal soul and emotion we've got we got to make sure we always believe in that and lean into that but also understand that that the things that affect my mind are going to affect my body and affect my spirit etc and and to approach it that way so like when somebody comes you know calls the church for counseling I'll be the first one to say you know self diagnosis I can't help you completely you know because we need each other I need someone like Bill in my life to help to help provide guardrails I don't think you'd like to like that description bill but just of my thinking so that I because I can really start to think really negative thoughts about my situation and my grief and and things that aren't true and and I need someone outside of myself and and even can I say outside of pastoral staff sometimes right that can help me why am I thinking this way what's going on you know and to have a community of people that I know that's why I love here in the church when I announce that we're going to do this weekend I got three emails from therapists in our church celebrating the fact that we're gonna have this discussion so even knowing that there are people in our in our congregation who have done the science who have worked the science and they're and they're seeing this holistic reality as well that and that's one of the reasons they're there leaning in at Westside is because they're like I I know that I'm more than just my mind but it all works together and I think that's a that's we have to approach it that way and know that we need each other we need people and we have a list of counselors and therapists that we would wreck people who are followers of Jesus that that yeah that that we need there are times in our lives that I think all of us need that and and you know it wasn't that long ago that you never heard a pastor say I'm going to see a counselor ever remember that anybody remember that you'd never hear that it would be a shameful thing for that pastor to say that maybe you lose their job you know and now we're at a place where we're like you know we can we not only can acknowledge it but we can like lean into it you know yeah a couple weeks ago my whole team generations team we sat and I think eight or nine counselors from our church sat with us and we just took notes and just asked questions about how we could do a better job helping our kids and I think this kind of partnership that we're seeing here is so critical so bill as we close speak to what it looks like going forward as the church does this job and as the mental health community does their job what does that look like and and and what gives you hope as you continue to work with with people in our community conversations give me hope walking in the light so we have fellowship it's not just around sin it's about brokenness so that gives me great hope gives me hope that people are sharing with coming generations that we will have relationship but as the relationship goes forward we will we will have needs and there's a freedom early on to share our need that gives me hope when my son was dying my brother this message that he gave me like today gives me hope most people wanted to remind me that David will go to see his son excited thank you so much or one person said I'm sure glad used to have three kids left thank you Jesus I call those death sentences famous first words oh and but my brother said bill there's the this is going on and I'm grieving and I think they got more training and sheriff's Academy that I got with my undergrad and pastoral studies because he actually has good question he says bill it's devastating what's happening with micaiah but can you and Kitty have a plan so that you stay close and that you are held in the midst of your grief that make sense and that gives me hope when people do this and we say we are grieving and we want to find a way to help and we are going to and we're gonna be there but in the midst of it we get exhausted we're gonna hold on to each other and that's what I get hope from and I think okay men then we let other people come up and we say would you consider engaging in the field of this yourself you know people that are choosing schools I mean when I was in when I was growing up you're either a pastor a youth pastor music director or married to one of them that was like the big four had to do and and okay can we think about this Oh missionary - um but can we think both this is something right in front of us and it gives me hope when people look at things right in front of them and say we can do this but I'm not gonna it's gonna be first-person plural not singular and a celebration and a novice celebrates and he's not asking us to fix it all but but to come alongside while it's happening it's precious bill as we close um let's let's stand as we finish this up I think um we had talked earlier bill and I just even this morning as we were praying together about how to close the service and Bill you talked about space about a place that we can create maybe talk a little bit about that and we're gonna do that in just a moment here as we finish but talk about the importance of that in our journey towards wholeness in it and in health well as parents were guided by Christ not exasperate our children sometimes we can have conversations like this that end up exasperating because it's like what do I do with that I would ask you to consider this this idea of space is is his will will stop and if nothing else a vigil in the southeast they have this beautiful thing they do where if there's if somebody is attacked people will will gather together and they will just we'll stand in silence on behalf of the grieving but they also stand in silence on behalf of the perpetrator it's amazing and it's not just why are you sitting there go do something it's can we just have a place to stop we've got three different groups now who said hey we have a ranch we have a ranch we have a place on the river for people to come and just breathe and again it's not just because the son died or something never put just in front of that sentence I'm sorry but it's like okay grieving exhausted let's find a place Jesus always did what he saw the father doing Jesus just stand with me a little while you know grief hablas a God who grieves and I think for that place we create that space I would suggest creating space if you are one of the people who right now something major quote isn't going on be wondering what would I do for space I told my wife their day if I can't get to the metolius river I will do you know I've got to go a place to breathe and we make strategy ahead of time and that creates this opportunity so we want to do that today you know we when tragedy strikes a community like Bill's saying they do vigils a lot where you know and when if you've ever been to a vigil you'll see people bringing flowers and candles and what are they doing they're silent as they reflect on the person's life and the tragedy and and we don't do that enough and as I think about our church and the stories that I hear every single week we don't have to look you've been outside this room to find tragedy and a heartache and brokenness it's sitting in us and around us this very moment and it it would be right and honoring to all those that are in this space right now if we would just take a moment and would you stand with me and we're gonna take a moment of silence and and I would ask you Bill's gonna close us in prayer but we're gonna take a moment of silence and as and as versatile and would you reflect on all that we have discussed but that the people there's people around you even right now who have been suffering quietly silently and maybe even just even as bill begins to pray maybe you just feel led to begin to pray for those that are sitting to your right in to your left in front of you and behind you they God's grace his strength his wisdom would reign in all of our lives so let's take a moment of silent silence and then bill will close us in prayer father you-you-you hold us you long for it you ache you do grieve you you celebrate you you notice and you free us as your children and I know there's other things we do but the our Father he's like I'm son prayer I know we even in our best intentions we can we can lead in a path that isn't from your heart and and or that this needs to be looked at one more time and wondered about just from a place of of sabbatical in a sense just to reflect and go yeah we got to look at this and not just a one time look but a but an invitation to this path it's a it's a path where we will seldom be able to say oh I got it all figured out now but it'll it will be a path of beauty and it'll be a path of respect and of honoring honoring you honoring your children of whom we and I just pray that that word beloved would would just destroy the word useful or performer or whatever else we kind of put on that nametag and and and that you're cherishing a heart of ours of us would just overwhelm and keep bringing it back I thank you for your love it thank you for your your understanding you know the intricacies not just these other things that were kind of feel called to do but to think this father longing to bring us close so that we can hear we can hear your heartbeat bigger than the heartbeat that pushes us towards shame or not being a burden or not having a real mourning as a foundation for comfort and your your longing to comfort and then to pass it around I pray that you would ignite hearts that just began to wonder with their space and as they stare at others it's that wonder what could happen if if we allowed that more and more to take over our being as your beloved's and I thank you for the beginnings of a discussion regarding the intricate and intimate way in which we've been created ask your powerful blessing over your children pray for protection over their hearts as Satan Lord who loves to write resumes is going to recite a few dozen things for why we're not quite ready or why we don't deserve or why did we wait so long and like that but now we're your children Lord and we want to walk in that thank you for your love may you anoint your children's hearts Jesus name Amen can we think bill for being with us today and thank you thank you so much bill before you guys take off a couple of things one on the in the handout there are a list of resources we also gave you a text number that you can text if there's anything that you want to either express or you want to reach out and ask for help of any kind you can use that text number but we also put an email address that goes directly to our primary pastoral care team member our leader and so and then they will help you take next steps also we have a list of other resources on our website there's some great reading resources that that bill recommended to us I love the third one on the list I'm not gonna tell you what it is you're gonna have to look at the list yourself it's my favorite book on the list and also our prayer teams are available I again I don't want us to minimize the work of the Spirit and bringing freedom and wholeness into our lives holistically and and so they're available to pray with authority and power for God to move in our hearts and minds and lives and so take advantage of that also next weekend baptism in the park right after the 11:15 so right around one o'clock we will start baptizing people at the river more information about where and time and all of that you can find it out in the atrium in our info center or on our website if you want to get baptized oh this is the best opportunity to do is so once once a year we do it in the river just like Jesus did it and so it's a it's a wonderful opportunity and then also next weekend I'm gonna be taking this to kind of another part just continuing the conversation about some of what the Word of God says about wholeness in our life and so I hope you can join us next weekend other than that have an awesome awesome week and I already know that Croatia probably lost I left after 4 minutes in extra time some of you don't even know what I'm talking about they're playing in the World Cup Finals but they lost and so go France whatever hey they're still wimpleton when I recorded that I just love sports you guys I gotta tell you I love sports all right you guys can go I don't know why you're still standing here you can you can leave take care we'll see you guys next weekend

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